Ascot Forum
First Generation Ascots => Tech Section => Topic started by: Chronic on March 02, 2015, 03:24:27 am
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Yesterday i took the bike for a spin for the first time, and realized that when in third gear, a grinding sound is Heard. All gears work fine, but in third something is grinding metal...
Anyone who did have this problem Before?
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I have not heard of any problems with 3rd. gear. What type of oil are you using? Oftentimes if you are using a regular automotive oil, you will notice an improvement in clutch & transmission operation by switching to a motorcycle specific oil such as Hondalube, Yamalube, Golden Spectro, Redline, etc. I like to run a 10W-40 motorcycle oil.
Good luck
J.
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I always use oil specific for motorcykels. I dont think this problem will be solved with an oilchange :(
A good thing the case is splitted horosontally, so its a bit moore easy to replace 3rd gear i hope..
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no slipping through the gears, no noise from the right side? seems like might be a broken gear... I'd get into it asap before it'll cause more damage.
You can use a long screwdriver ( longer the better ) to check to the noise, put the bike up on the mainstand, run it through the gears.
pointy end against the noisy location handle to your ear, other ear plugged.... :P or you can use a stethoscope with some narrow copperpipe in the end
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The gears working fine, as the clutch. Its a grinding noice.
I dont know what good comes out from trying detecting the source of the noice, could it even be something else than third gear sprocket on main/countershaft?
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Just to make thats were the noise is coming from, before you split the motor. Riding and listening can be vague
If it was say the selector fork or a end bearing, you'd most likely have problems with other gears too.
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If your noise is only in 3rd gear that is most likely your problem, layshaft gear or mainshaft gear, shift fork or forks,maybe the shaft itself where the gear rides when engaged in 3rd.Mybe something else but being that it only happens in 3rd that eliminates almost everything else it could be
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Thanks for input. Yes the noice is very distinct conected with 3rd and is not to be heard on other gears.
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This probably won't help you much, but usually the FT Ascots have problems with the starter engagement or timing chain adjustment.
I cannot recall hearing of any transmission issues. I once heard that the FT gear set is stronger than the XR/XL gear sets. I have no idea if this is true or not. I would probe the engine with a listening device to determine the best that you can where the noise is coming from. I think I would also drain the oil & remove the oil filter. Check the oil for chips, particles, etc, & take the filter apart while looking debris. Other than that, it looks like you will have to split the cases & examine the trans.
Good luck & please let us know what you discover.
J.
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I do have one spare Engine, though is a XT/XL 500 without cylinderhead and enginecovers. I do hope the tranny from that one fits in my FT. In that case it would be "non-cost" projekt, besides some gaskets and whatnot.
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Would the gears even be close, let alone the same ratio ?. After all dirt and street and different terrain and I'm sure honda had that in mind.
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both have 18' rear wheels, I recently entered the original sprockets sizes into a calculator, and the XL500s came out with 9mph less in top end speed, and from memory a ratio of 3.00. FT might have been 2.8?
Sprocket changes would be easy enough, and besides the oil pan, side cases, arent the engine cases the same?
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both have 18' rear wheels, I recently entered the original sprockets sizes into a calculator, and the XL500s came out with 9mph less in top end speed, and from memory a ratio of 3.00. FT might have been 2.8?
Sprocket changes would be easy enough, and besides the oil pan, side cases, arent the engine cases the same?
Well at least they look kinda the same to me.
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Yesterday i changed the oil, and guess what!! The third gear noice became worse, so i took the Engine out, took me half of an hour :P
Now i will get it open, and see what causes the noice
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FT Gear box
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...And XL gearbox, i have a set like this, the question is, if this gonna fit?
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I now have both engines cracked open, the XR gearbox lookes the same as FT's
I also noticed that a kickstarter conversion is not that hard, if u want. Of course u gona need an axel and a engine cover, But it all fits in the engine
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Actually you don't need the engine cover .... you need the kick shaft seal and the kick shaft and associated gears ... washers .... spacers etc. The clutch cover is exactly the same there is an aluminum plug and rubber seal. It pop's right out ..... look for my post XL/XR kickstarter i have a picture there
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Yeah you are right, its just a plug in the cover.
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So now the gears are in place...
Just to be sure, is there anyone who knows how to realign the markings to set the Counter balancer?
Also, on the mainshaft sprocket that drives the CB there's a quite big offset weight, should that also be in any paticular direction?
Is there a workshop manual to be downloaded from somewhere?
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So the gears from both the FT and XL are identical? Did you find the cause of the noise?
I scanned the pages from the manual:
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Last page:
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They may be identical. ..... but the ratios maybe be slightly different. Instead of doing say for example. .... 5th gear goes to 85 mph now it might go 78 mph. Look up the gear ratios for both bikes cause the XL/XR were dual purpose bikes where the FT was ment 100% for the road
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Last page:
Thats fantastic, thank´s a LOT!!
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....And yeah, i did find what did cause the noice :o :o
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They may be identical. ..... but the ratios maybe be slightly different. Instead of doing say for example. .... 5th gear goes to 85 mph now it might go 78 mph. Look up the gear ratios for both bikes cause the XL/XR were dual purpose bikes where the FT was ment 100% for the road
That will be a suprise, good or bad.
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Are you asking ? Or just stating lol ...... if you think about where in the woods would you be doing 85 ? .... lmao just common sense i suppose with a little logic
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I must say that the gears looked similar to me, but i didn´d Count the tooth.
The two gearsets was interchangeble even if you mix XL with FT.
So my guess so far is that there´s no difference.
Mayby the XL just have a different ratio on the chainsprockets?
Well, soon there will be a testdrive, so we will see how it really is i real Life. :D
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XL used a 13 tooth front sprocket with a 42 tooth rear. XR used a 13 tooth front with a 50 tooth rear.
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yes but when i say ratios i mean like 1st gear 2.567 2nd gear 2.063 ..... that type of ratio. All the sprockets do is alter your final drive ..... even shows you in the book.
The final drive ratio stock is 2.800 (42/15) so sprocket sizes are only changing your final drive ratio. What I'm referring to about the ratios may be different is the gears themselves not the sprockets.
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Now you'll see what i mean by the Gear Ratios
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https://m.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=446926032018044&id=256287767748539
That link was the most informative i could find atm on the trans specs and good to know to
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yes but when i say ratios i mean like 1st gear 2.567 2nd gear 2.063 ..... that type of ratio. All the sprockets do is alter your final drive ..... even shows you in the book.
The final drive ratio stock is 2.800 (42/15) so sprocket sizes are only changing your final drive ratio. What I'm referring to about the ratios may be different is the gears themselves not the sprockets.
Yeah i do understand and knows about the ratio, i guess i could look up the ratio of the XL/XR and compare them, but i´m more into getting my nice FT on the road again, with or without eventually offroad ratio :D Still thou the gearcase looks exacly the same, to change the ratio you must have different size of internal gears, right?
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XL used a 13 tooth front sprocket with a 42 tooth rear. XR used a 13 tooth front with a 50 tooth rear.
Thanks, and yes, thats where the big difference are, to my belives.
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If you read the link i provided it gives you some insight ..... but from what it reads internally they are the same with minor difference
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If you read the link i provided it gives you some insight ..... but from what it reads internally they are the same with minor difference
Oh, are we Taking about differences between XL/XR? Sorry, i did missunderstand in that case. I'm just comparing the FT's gears with the gears that i took from another engine, without electric starter. I dont know if it's a XL or XR
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The XL is basically the FT ..... just in a different body. I was comparing all 3 of the bike model's as i wasn't positive either but that post seemed more helpful then some others i browsed. It did state that the XR gears were wider .. but not much to be found other then final drive ratio
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Now i have the Engine put back together, and back in the frame. Fired right up with a press of the button as usual ;D
All the gears seems to work properly, but i have not driven it yet, cause of the rain and Cold wether.
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good stuff :)