Ascot Forum
First Generation Ascots => The Thumper Years: Modified To Full Customs => Topic started by: FT500R on June 16, 2020, 03:04:14 am
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While my other project is not even finished I am going to start a new one.
I stumbled acros a very cheap FT500 donor bike, it's a stranded flattrack project by the previous owner and it is perfect for what I intend to do with it.
I want to build a small racebike to compete in vintage demo races here in the Netherlands.
These races are on street circuits and ranked on consistancy instead of outright speed so it also means I can keep the engine relatively stock (and cheap).
The whole build will be on a small budget to keep it fun.
I already have a set of CBR600f Hurricane forks and wheels for it.
What needs to be done:
- Get the bike running
- Mount CBR600F Forks and wheels
- Make and mount a seat
- Make and mount front fairing
- Brace the rear swingarm (in the class I am running the swingarm itself needs to be stock)
- Fix exhaust or make one out of stainless
- New rear springs
- Rearsets for ground clearance
- The bike will be build as a racebike without lights or anything, there is registration on the frame though so I am contemplating to have removable lights to be able to test the bike on the street.
I've added 2 pictures of the style that I am aiming for.
Any tips and tricks are greatly appreciated.
I know the FT500 was used in AHRMA championships quite a lot so any racing upgrade knowledge would be great
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Had some spare time yesterday evening so started to look at the state of the donor.
Man it is dirrrrty!
There is a thick layer of caked crap everywhere on the bike. Started to tackle that with some old rags and decreaser but I have a long way to go.
While I was at it I thought I would testfit the CBR forks.
One thing lead to another and now the full CBR front end is in.
Length difference is quite significant.
I still have to put the clipons on instead of the handle bars and I do want to lower the forks a bit further on the tripple tree.
Next in line is cleaning the carb, giving the starter mechanism some maintenance and reinstalling the wiring harness, after an oil and filter change I would like to see if I can get some noise out of her.
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I had to remove about a 1" section out of the side stand after the CBR swap. Beware of the oil sump now sitting lower when you go over a speed bump, etc. I used Honda CR type motocross handlebars. I retained the OEM FT triple clamps & slid the CBR fork tubes into place.
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Mounted the clipons, brakes and rear wheel of the CBR today.
The rear wheel does rub a bit on the right hand side of the swingarm, might be because the chain is a bit short (it's still the old 530 chain) and the wheel is very forward in the adjusters now.
After that I sprayed some primer on the tank to prevent rust.
Doesn't look half bad.
I also tried to clean the carb which went reasonably well. Biggest problem was that I can't get the jets out. Soaking them in penetrating oil now to hopefully get them out.
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Got the jets out today!
Soaked them in penetrating oil for some days and they actually came out pretty easily.
With the carb cleaned I turned my attention to the electric system to diagnose any problems.
I hooked up the loom that I got with the bike. Connected everything up and first checked if I had power.
Ignition on and yes we have power!
Disconnected the pinion solenoid. Pressed the starter button and the starter motor works.
Disconnected the motor and connected the pinion solenoid, pressed the button again and this also works!
Connected the pinion solenoid again but took the sparkplug out.
Pressed the button and the engine cranks over, even better the sparkplug has a nice and strong spark!
So naturally I couldn't resist.
I reinstalled the sparkplug, got some starting spray and had the bike running for the first time in quite some years. (Without exhaust or air filter... Sorry neighborhood)
Not on gasoline yet (didn't hook up the tank) but great to know most of the engine seems alright.
Next step is to change the oil, hook up the tank and the exhaust and see if I can get her running on gas.
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Nice work.
What brand/type of starter spray did you use?
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Brake cleaner....
almost anything flammable will work TBH.
Would even use deodorant spray on my mopeds back in highschool (always nice to have your moped smell like a teenage boy)
Ordered a bunch of parts to start overhauling the bike.
There is a lot of RTV everywhere, someone tried to RTV the leaking cam O-rings so will be taking it apart after I've tested it a bit.
Total list of ordered stuff:
- Upper engine mount (was missing)
- Lefthandside CBR600F rearset with shifter pedal
- Tank rubber mounts
- kickstand spring
- Plug for the rev drive hole (will run electric rev counter)
- TDC check cover
- Exhaust studs (Do not order the ones from CMSNL. they are m6x35 while the FT needs m6x45!)
- Overhaul kit for the CBR front forks (dust seals, oil seals, bushings, everything)
- Full gasket set
- Exhaust gaskets
- Brake lever
- Throttle tube because mine was internally broken.
What I am still looking for:
- Proper jets for the carb (Keihin N424-26 jets are almost unobtainable here. I can get n424-21s but those are too long)
- Airfilter, looking at a foam style filter
- Exhaust muffler (need to clean and repair the original rusted out one that came with the bike
- seat (looking for a classic endurance style seat)
- Half fairing (same as above)
- lights
- rear springs (cb750sc)
- tires (bridgestone s10)
- chain and sprockets
- front brake discs as these are worn
- braided brakelines
- small stuf I will surely find when working further on the bike
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Got all my parts in before the weekend so took some time to install some of them.
Fitted my old rusty exhaust without muffler (muffler coming soon). Also fitted the CBR600 rearsets, some fab work required to the frame but think they will work great.
With the fully cleaned carb I wanted to try to get it running on actual gas instead of starter spray.
Hooked up the tank of my other FT as this has some relatively fresh gas in it.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/HbT5xlXsaJg
She runs really good!
No strange engine sounds whatsoever.
Also ran her through some gears while on the stand and everything works as intended.
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Looking good, thanks for the update!
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Very cool!
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Got a new airfilter and a new second hand exhaust today.
For the airfilter I went with a foam (double layer) filter. This should filter nicely, at least much better than those cheap mesh filters, and because it is foam you can easily fit it in the cramped space.
For the exhaust I was able to get a second hand Megaton exhaust for cheap. They are cheap exhausts anyway so I don't expect too much from it. It did come with multiple DB-killers so hopefully I can make it somewhat quiet.
Will be a bit of an effort to fit as the rearsets limit room for a link pipe.
I am also playing around a bit with possible seats. My original plan was a NSR250 seat but those are from the early 90s while the organization of the demo races I want to participate in want to have a more 70s/80s vibe.
Best option that I could work out in paint looks to be an altered Laverda SFC750 seat.
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Had someone with a bit of photoshop skill make an indication of how the bike could look.
Ordered the seat unit so that should arrive one of these days.
For the front fairing I have one that I am going to look at next week.
Also looking to make a link pipe to mount the exhaust muffler
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Nice! I also bought a cbr600 front end the other day.
Do you know why the forks sticks out so much above the triple tree? Why is it not in line with the top of it?
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Originally the clipons are mounted on top of the tripple tree.
So there has to be space for that and therefore they portrude a bit further through the tripple tree.
When I first mounted the forks in the FT, I mounted them flush with the top (you can see in one of my earlier posts).
That made the forks look very long and skinny and I also didn't like the stance.
I will stiffen the front forks anyway (found an old instruction how to improve the forks of a CBR600F1).
regards,
Paul
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To properly fit the CBR rear wheel I still had to make rear brake support bracket.
I am using the CBR mounting bracket and CBR brake caliper but I decided to use the FT brake support bracket.
Had to make a new hole to line up with the mounting bracket.
After that the bracket was way to big so I got my angle grinder out again.
Fits up nicely now.
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Thanks for sharing the info on how you solved the rear brake. I will get there pretty soon myself.
I see what you mean by the front end looking skinny when the forks are flush with the triple tree. The stance is better as you have it now, but I do not like the protruding forks, hmm..
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Another question: can you send me the link to the overhaul kit for the CBR front forks (dust seals, oil seals, bushings, everything) that you bought? Are you planning on doing the service yourself? If so, please share how it went, I am a bit hesitant on doing service on forks myself. It seems tricky...
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I ended up doing this.
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Another question: can you send me the link to the overhaul kit for the CBR front forks (dust seals, oil seals, bushings, everything) that you bought? Are you planning on doing the service yourself? If so, please share how it went, I am a bit hesitant on doing service on forks myself. It seems tricky...
I got them from a dutch webshop.
http://www.japparts.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79_86_93_183&products_id=16849
http://www.japparts.nl/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=79_86_93_183&products_id=17699
I have rebuilt some forks before. It is not that hard just follow a haynes manual and you will be alright. I have a CBR haynes manual I can send you if you like.
The adaptations as stated in the above files will be new for me too so I'll have to find out how that works myself.
When I get to that I'll take some pictures and share them here.
I ended up doing this.
I saw that on your original post on the swap, a lot cleaner than my solution! But mine was very easy with the parts I had lying around. Might change it up eventually but I am happy with how it is right now. Does the job ;)
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Thanks. I didn't even think about using the original one. Your solution is more clever.
EDIT: The bracket/strap that I made, required shocks with smaller diameter springs.
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It would be awesome if you could send me the manual! I think you can send DMs through this site?
I will have a look at the links you attached, thanks again.
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Got my new seat unit in the mail some days ago.
It was a bit too long for my taste so I shortened the seating area and cut off the 'flap' at the rear to flow a bit more with the curve of the side panels.
First picture is before cutting it up and the other 3 of the current size.
Will have to rework part of the seating area to fit the frame a bit better. I am also contemplating if I should extend the seat unit down to meet up with the framerails. The unit is nicely in line with the fold in the tank at the moment and that line could be visually broken if I do extend it down.
I also have to strengthen the unit so I can actually sit on it and come up with a solid way of mounting it all.
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I strengthened the new glassfiber seat with some aluminium yesterday.
This will be bonded to the seat to provide some rigidety and enough strength to mount it to the bike properly.
I also made the upper mount for the CBR footpegs.
For the lower mount I use the FT footpeg upper mount.
I ground half of a large nut round, drilled a hole in the frame in the correct spot and wedged the nut in the hole.
The footpegs are where I want them and it already is very sturdy.
I will be welding it all the way around later.
A quick bend in the shifting mechanism solved any clearance issues with the frame.
Pretty happy with the result, ground clearance is better then with the original footpegs.
I do have to adjust the brake pedal a bit. It is too low (have to bend my foot very awkward to push it) and it is the first thing to hit the ground when tipping the bike over.
It has some adjustment so that will be an easy fix.
I also got a small entry level MIG/MAG welder so this will help with making the exhaust later.
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Due to the CBR footpegs I have to reroute the exhaust.
I roughly eyeballed the route and bought some mandrel bends.
After some more eyeballing, some measuring and cutting I ended up with a rather nice linkpipe.
By shortening the original exhaust that was very rusty on that end anyway I can slide this linkpipe over and fit the exhaust quite nicely.
It is really close to the swingarm and rear master brake cylinder but it has enough clearance I think.
There is also enough wiggleroom to get it properly aligned when I start welding everything together.
Pretty happy with the result.
Have to get my welder working a bit better and then I can get another step further in the build.
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Nice work!
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Got a new front fairing.
Made the fairing stay on the front already, have to tweak it a bit more but it is already pretty sturdy.
Will add some brackets to the sides to keep them in the correct position and from flapping around.
Also welded my linkpipe. Have to add a bracket to fix the linkpipe to the frame on the spot where the exhaust normally mounts and have to add a muffler hanger.
The windscreen on the pictures is one I had lying around. I will not use this one but it was more to get an idea of the looks.
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What size tires do you have on this mr FT500?
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110/70/17 front
140/70/17 rear
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I've welded supports for the fairing so it is installed.
I made one support from the neck of the frame forward and 2 small tabs on the sides of the frame.
My welding isn't great but it's solid and when I will prepare for final painting of the frame I can grind the ugly bits down a bit.
I am very satisfied with the position and sturdiness of the fairing. It really hugs the bike nice and tight.
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Looking good. :)
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Well on the way! Looks good.
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Refurbished the front forks this weekend.
Not the first one I did and since this is not a cartridge style fork it was really easy.
Replaced all the seals and slider bushings as the seals were leaking and the bushings completely worn.
I removed the whole anti-dive system as this will lockup the forks when braking on a bumpy road (not something you want when riding on street circuits)
Also drilled some extra holes in the damping rods to prepare for cartridge emulators. I have gone for the YSS PD valves instead of the more well known racetech gold valves. Primarily because the YSS are actually obtainable in Europe and they are a lot cheaper.
I'll be running 15wt fork oil and will have to shorten the spring or the spacer to accomodate for the PD valve. Will post more on that whenever I get them.
The postal company has lost my package with the valves though but at least everything is prepared and they should be a quick drop in.
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Fully welded the exhaust and slapped some cheap heat resistant paint on it. (I also drilled some holes in the header to weld in the inner tubes that got loose, seems to have worked)
After that I got some new sticky stuff for the FT.
I went with Bridgestone RS10s. Read a lot of good reviews about them, they were pretty affordable and were available as a set in the sizes I wanted. Really happy with them. I got 110/70/17 for the front and 140/70/17 for the rear.
For the front forks I came across these things:
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1u264XlyWBuNkSmFPq6xguVXaf.jpg)
These fit on the forks instead of the current caps. I would loose the air valves and with that the possibility to pressurize the forks but would gain pre-load adjustment. Anyone any experience with something similar?
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I used the adjustable top caps on one of my CBR250's and found they made a noticable difference.
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Got the PD-valves in the mail this weekend and installed them.
Really clever little things.
You put them in your forks between the damper rod and the spring.
The spring preload of the little valve controlles the amount of oil that can flow when the forks compress, with that it controlles the compression damping.
Rebound is still controlled with the oil viscoscity.
I've set the valves on 3 turns preload (out of 7) for now. The forks still feel a bit soft but this could also be due to the relatively weak standard fork springs.
I had to shorten the fork spacer with 14mm (thickness of the PD-valves) to keep normal pre-load on the fork springs.
I'll keep them like this for now, changing the pre-load on the PD-valves is relatively easy so I can dail them in further when I get to test ride the bike a bit (you do have to 'open up' the forks by removing the top cap, spacer and springs).
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Looking good - thanks for the update!
I reckon you'll like the cartridge emulators. I'm a big fan - for the last ten years or so I've been running them (RaceTech's version) in all my vintage bikes.
You may already have figured this, but in case you need to adjust the emulators, a tool like this is helpful to grab them from the top of the damping rod: https://www.homedepot.com/p/GrabEasy-24-in-Flexible-4-Claw-Pick-Up-Tool-Jewelry-Retriever-Clog-Remover-Drain-Snake-in-Chrome-PF0401/202505170
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Thanks.
I indeed used a similar tool. Works like a charm and you don't have to drop the valves in or turn the forks upside down to get them out.
I just ordered new shocks and progressive fork springs so the whole suspension should be sorted.
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Christmas was early this year (or Sinterklaas which we celebrate in the Netherlands).
Just got my Hagon shocks and fork springs.
I went to the importer of Hagon shocks here in the Netherlands to discuss which type would be best for my situation and instead of the more expensive adjustable 2810 series they actually recommended the 'standard' shocks as these have progressive damping.
This progressive damping various according to the sharpness of the shocks and with that would be more optimal than a set damping that will always dampen the same way.
I did get springs specifically for my own weight, the bike and the racing I will be doing with it.
Together with the progressive fork springs and the YSS PD-valves this should give a much improved ride.
Hope to install everything this weekend.
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When racing I have to remove the side and center stand, which means that parking the bike is a bit difficult.
To make it a lot easier to prop the bike up I welded 2 long nuts on the rear swing arm to fit paddock stand bobbins.
The Hagon shocks I bought are a bit longer than the orignals (was recommended this by someone who races FT500s). The bike looks pretty sweet with the shocks installed.
I also made a muffler support from a strip of aluminium. Might add some speedholes in it to add lightness ;)
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Fitted the hagon progressive fork springs today.
These replace the original spring, washer and spacer.
Problem was that I had shortened the spacer to make room for the PD-valves (about 20mm).
I can't just shorten the progressive springs so I fitted them as is, I do have quite a lot of spring pre-load now (about 37mm) but statically the forks feel great and not harsh at all.
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Nice, which model of the progressive springs was it?
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Yesterday it was time for spaghetti!
Stripped the wiring harness and removed everything I did not need anymore (blinkers, clutch/neutral start safety etc). I got the extra wires out by depinning the plugs instead of cutting the wires. Everything for now can still be put back to stock (not that I intend to ever go back to stock ;D)
Still kept the wiring for the headlight in for now and kept some extra grounds and + wires. Can always remove them later.
I also removed, disassembled and fully cleaned the carb (again) and fitted a spare windscreen I had lying around. It was an old torn windscreen that did not fit this bike at all. I cut it up fust before the tear, made it to size and cut some holes. Will do for now.
@Hellblom I will check the partnumber for you later.
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@hellblom. Partnumber is 500-173-00 according to the box.
I made some progress on the fiberglass seat but due to a hack my company blocked a lot of websites (I only have a work laptop) uploading pictures from my phone doesn't work so will have to figure something out before I can do another update on the progress. Doesn't matter too much as progress will be a bit slower since I am moving next month, a lot of time will go into that before I can resume work on the bikes.
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Thanks! I hope you move to a place with a garage :)
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Unfortunately no garage. A small shed that is too small to really work on the bike in, but at least I will have power and a place of my own. I do have enough space to build a carport or maybe even a garage but I would have to check with the municipality if that is allowed (strict rules on that here). It will be a big step forward from my current situation anyway.
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Completely moved now and very happen with my new little shed.
I thought I would have a lot less room but actually I am able to fit both FTs inside where before I could only fit 1.
Now both bikes are inside I can start freshing up the engine of the race FT.
I started draining the oil and there was a lot of sludge in there, even though I renewed the oil 2 months ago and the bike didn't run in between. I think some rain water leaked in the breather while the bike was outside.
Half an hour later I had the engine out.
Next step is to cover all openings and power wash the engine. When it is clean I'll probably whip up a small engine stand to have the engine more stable and upright.
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Cozy shed you got!
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Very nice.
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I power washed the engine and started taking it apart to freshen it up.
I found a lot of non- standard bolts and RTV which is never a good sign. Someone has been in this engine before and he/she was not gentle.
Will probably have to helicoil every headcover bolt (standard practice with the FT anyway) and replace all of those bolts as the threads have gone on those too.
Unfortunately the rockerarms have completely worn so I will have to replace those. I was afraid the cam was a goner too but after comparing it with a spare one, which I know is good, it turns out this one is not that bad either. After measuring the camshaft journals and even the lobe height are well within spec.
The camchaintensioner bolt is loose but won't come out so I suspect the same problem one of the other members of the ascot facebook board had. I also discovered that the 2 head nuts on the underside of the head are missing... Pretty amazing what you find on a 150 euro 40 year old bike
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Managed to get the camchaintensioner bolt that was stripped out by prying a flathead screwdriver between the camchaintensioner and the cilinder head on the inside. This put enough pressure on the bolt for the threads to bite and to screw out.
Removing the head was peanuts afterwards (helps that the lower two head nuts were missing.)
The valves and piston are not completely covered in carbon build up which is a good thing. A not so good thing is the piece of helicoil sticking out of the sparkplug hole.
The used head gasket is aftermarket so again an indication someone messed with the bike before (and did not do a good job).
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I share your grief about the sparkplug helicoil. I have successfully repaired them using a solid insert (timesert, nutsert, etc) with good results.
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That's my plan to.
I'm looking into solid inserts that have small collar and thread in from the inside so it definitely won't come out when I remove the spark plug.
A bit more bad news today however. I don't know exactly what happened here but the piston is shot. The grooves in the cilinder wall are visible but I can't feel them. Hope to get them out after a hone and an one size over piston.
Starting to become a full engine overhaul :-\
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Ordered a new piston.
I am also looking at buying a new second hand crank. Unfortunately the small end of mine is a bit pitted too.
Will do the valve stem seals this weekend, hope that I do not encounter too many other broken bits as this 'engine fresh-up' is starting to look like a complete rebuild pretty fast..
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Wow, how unfortunate! I hope you will overcome all your issues. I also ordered a new piston, a Wiseco 10,5:1, so a little more compression.
Olle
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And the saga continues.
Cleaned up the inside of the head as much as possible and reground the valves.
The (inner) valve springs are out of spec so I have to start searching for new ones there. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
I've used a copper wire wheel on some parts of the engine and it gets the paint of reasonably well. Decided that I will go for that look for the complete engine apart from the cilinder and head. I will not be able to get into the cooling fins so will paint those parts black.
I am also struggling with the rockercover shaft dowel. I got 1 out using the 'yahoo' method with tapping a thread on it and using that to pull itself out. The other one stripped the newly made threads unfortunately. I then tried the 'haynes' method by grinding a slot and trying to tap it out but as you can see that only bend the dowel.
Any thoughts or tips on this?
I also checked all the headcover bolt holes and it looks like I have to helicoil almost all of them (already anticipated that) strangely enough 1 bolt was M8, 1 was M7 and the rest appears to be M6 (although some stripped). The M8 and M7 do not correspond to the expected M7 bolts though.
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When I have had trouble with the dowels I welded an extra piece of steel to the dowel so as to be able to get a better grip on it with a vice. Cut off and cleaned up the dowel before returning to valve cover.
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Will try to weld a bolt or nut to the dowel.
I only have a 220v flux core mig welder so hope I can get enough heat in the dowel to make something stick to it.
I'll probably get a new dowel afterwards ;)
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Since the small end of my crank was damaged I bought a second hand one via Ebay.
Always a bit of a gamble but the one I received is in immaculate condition!
Very happy with that.
Continuing to strip the engine down to really get a proper overview of what I need to order.
I also got my new piston in (.5 oversize) so can send the cylinder out for a bore and a hone.
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Good job!
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Got the whole engine apart and I am stripping the cases of the paint now.
Had to unfortunately also replace the oil pomp as the rotor was very pitted (although all clearances were still fine)
I finally got the last rockershaft dowel out. Ended up welding a small strip to the dowel, clamping the strip in a vice and gently tapping the headcover (with a piece of cardboard in between) this finally got the dowel out.
I've collected a decent amount of rockers now... some very good... some very bad..
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Already building the engine up again.
Got the cylinder back with a fresh new bore and hone, immediately painted it with some heat resistant paint.
Properly seated the valves, got the new crank in, new seals, used red RTV to give it a bit of contrast to the oil and gunk in the engine. (had some issues identifying the excess RTV from the PO in the engine.
Gapped the pistonrings and installed the cylinder.
New camchain, camchaintensioner spring and swapped out the clutch center for a second hand I had lying around. The old one had too much wear on the inside for my liking.
Now waiting for the thread insert for my spark plug before I can reassemble the cylinder head.
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Nice work.
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Did some nice jobs over the Easter weekend.
First I prepped the starting system for needle bearings.
You have to grind the 2 steel bushings in half to get them out (or remove them in another way) and you have to grind away a 1 mm step in de bottom of the engine side casing.
Not a hard job but one you have to do very carefully. You do not want to overshoot and damage the surface area of the bore where the needle bearings will fit.
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I also fitted a thread insert in the sparkplug hole which finally completed the complete overhaul of the cylinder head.
After that I reinstalled the head and set the cam on the correct timing. Having the camchain tensioner compressed and held in place with a small pin really helps a lot. This gives a lot more play on the chain. I had to readjust the timing a couple of times to get it right.
When gently threading the headcover bolts back in I noticed 2 threads stripped. I did check all the threads in the head and where necessary fitted helicoils but it seems that the 2 that I did not helicoil decided that they wanted to cause me trouble. I will have to remove the headcover again to fix this as it are the 2 next to the cam that put the proper preload on the cam bearing surface.
(number 2 and 4 in the tightening sequence).
I did get some paint from the clutch cover, will have to clean it up a bit more but I like the overall look.
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Keep plugging along. Good work!
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Nice work. I used a reamer to do the bearing holes.
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Excellent thread with good blow by blow details of work done. Thanks for bringing us along.
Gus
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In the mean time I've reopened the cylinder head cover and installed helicoils in the holes for bolts 2 and 4. For these you need to really drill quite deep and place the helicoil rather deep. To make room for the tap you have to open up the hole a bit more on the top.
A bit of a nerve wrecking exercise but all in all it worked really well and the head cover is back on with all the bolts nicely torqued.
I've also stripped the paint from the left side engine cover now and installed the needle bearings for the pinion.
I only need to do the sump and then the engine is completely finished!
Will start to take the frame apart to get the rust of and paint it.
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The engine is completely back together and I stripped the frame and rust proofed and painted it.
Now in the progress of building it up again
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Looks good. :)
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she is a bit of a 10 footer... I painted the frame with a paintbrush instead of spraypaint. It was a bit of an experiment but it left a lot of texture on the frame.
Its a race bike so not to big of a deal
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she is a bit of a 10 footer... I painted the frame with a paintbrush instead of spraypaint. It was a bit of an experiment but it left a lot of texture on the frame.
Its a race bike so not to big of a deal
Use a small roller next time. That way the texture will be more uniform. ;D
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Tried that but somehow that roller wouldn't rol and would remove more paint then it would apply...
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Tried that but somehow that roller wouldn't rol and would remove more paint then it would apply...
Ah... That's no good.